I’ve been told by some people that they find these Tumblr discussions enjoyable and informative. i try to at least balance out the serious posts with posts devoted to some of the silliness coming across my dash, and I hope I’m not offending the original posters. (If so, let me know and I’ll erase any of your posts I put up. Just send me the link and your name, so I can find it quickly.)
*Here’s an example of fandom racism not staying just within fanfiction. We’re not just talking about people writing shitty fanfic about Wakanda being run by Queen Natasha Romanov, the Dora Milaje babysitting Bucky Barnes, or The Black Panther being The Avengers new “sugar daddy”.
On Tumblr, people can attach comments to your posts and then reblog them, so that anyone who follows them can see them. They can message comments to you, although, like Twitter, you can block people who get on your nerves. (For me, its much easier to respond to posts by putting them on here and leaving a comment. There’s also the fact that it can be hard to tell how old a post is, as many of them are not dated. When I can’t tell how old a post is, its much easier for me to respond to it this way.)
This post references the endless speculation the fandom keeps having about various Black characters being secret members of Hydra, and how the new Black Panther movie doesn’t need any of the White characters from The Avengers, to tell its story.
Lololol. If it doesn’t show up in the movie best believe the fans will come up with it.
Stop trying to force your white faves into a governing position in Wakanda. Bucky is not the Second in Command, Steve is not in charge of the Wakandan military, and Natasha damn sure ain’t the Queen.
Do you understand how problematic you are by trying to white wash this country? Stop it.
There will be zero white people in any position of power in Wakanda. ZERO. NONE. THIS IS A 1000% BLACK AFRICAN RUN STATE OF POWER.
No, go on, Bucky as second in command!
‘Fine,’ T’challa sighs, holding up his hand to cut off the current advisor in full flow. ‘It is obvious that we are not going to come to agreement on this new policy today.’
The advisor sighs in relief and glances at his supporters. ‘”Or any day, my King.’
‘”In that case,’ T’Challa says with a smile as pleased as a panther with prey in sight. ‘”Why don’t we give the deciding vote to my second-in-command. Shuri, summon Mr Buchanan.’
There is a pause and then the cyrotube is rolled into the throne room. A frosty Bucky slumbers within.
‘Well, look at that,’ T’Challa says. ‘He agrees with me.’
One of the advisors protests, ‘’He is in an induced coma, sire!’
‘And yet, he still sees the wisdom of not thwarting me on a policy my father set into motion before his death.’
That is the only “white character in the Wakandan government” I will accept.
How about Steve as ‘War Minister’ to the Dora Milaje? Leading training sessions with his shirt off, practicing with his new shield, and flirting genially and harmlessly with the younger Doras and some of the more light hearted older ones*.
Laughing when T’Challa points out that what the Doras call him doesn’t exactly mean ‘War Minister’ and shrugging easily. ‘Not the first time I have been a pinup boy, your majesty. It’s good for morale to have something to take lightly.’
*The flirting is the furtherest thing from serious – even if they weren’t potential brides for the King, they are the daughters of the most powerful men in the kingdom and Steve is an outlaw with no nation. It was only after he proved that he understood it was just words and eyes that they really started to tease.
** He is a good fighter, and they do respect that, but they have lots of good fighters. Someone they can tease and make blush like a maid? That makes him fun to have around.
*** I am still pouting that apparently this version of Steve didn’t fight with T’Challa’s father against the Nazis. Because that would have been fun.
Why did you think that this addition was okay? What part of no white people in positions of power in Wakanda did you not understand.
Why do y’all not get why this shit isn’t okay. It’s racist okay. Cut it out.
Like I low key don’t like the one with Bucky still frozen because T’Challa is King he doesn’t need to have Bucky in anyway.
“By putting white characters in positions of power in Wakanda is racist” “Okay but what if they DID have those positions of power?”
Also T’Challa and other Black Panthers before him I beat the living shit out of Steve. No contest. Also Steve didn’t fight with Tchallas grandfather in WWII. He invaded his country to steal vibranium. Y’all can’t be this musty
I’m going to leave the entirety of this here. Not just for the awesome clapback at the end, but because of the nonsense spewed in the middle of the post. Often people write posts and others can comment on the posts, but on occasion, the response is just racist/homophobic/ sexist nonsense, and its just been attached to a post and reblogged.
Like, I’m actually crying because Finn is such a beautiful and truly revolutionary character in so many ways and John Boyega’s talent is honestly incredible, immense, and undeniable yet he and Finn don’t get the love they deserve and would otherwise get simply because he’s Black. There is literally no other reason or explanation.
John is literally still dealing with people tweeting him about how they wished Finn would’ve died in the movie and how he seems “out of place.” No shade to anyone else, but in an honest assessment of merit and performance, John Boyega should be the breakout star of TFA, and yes, he’s gotten awards–BAFTA, Empire Awards, etc.–but if he were white he’d have so much more. I mean, Harrison Ford got a Best Actor nomination for TFA over John, the actual lead. Like, at the point where we had to create the #FinnIsALead campaign and STILL have to remind and even PROVE to people that John/Finn is the male lead of Star Wars: The Force Awakens…just, I’m tired. But that’s what whiteness does: it elevates white mediocrity and ignores and denies Black excellence.
John had to be ten times better than the white guys that auditioned for the role, evidenced by the fact that they made him audition for seven whole months–longer than anyone else. (Oh to be a fly on the wall in those conversations given that they decided against giving the role of Han Solo to a Black man 30 years ago because of the romance with a white woman.) John’s talent and charisma had to be so overwhelming that it couldn’t be ignored. And when he books the part, gives a stellar performance, when he meets and exceeds the impossible standards whiteness places on Blackness for basic consideration, and is clearly the lead of the biggest movie franchise on the planet, he’s still not given his due. Because he’s Black.
This world doesn’t deserve Finn, or John, or any of the millions of incredible Black folks existing despite systematic efforts to annihilate us. No matter how much hate we endure, no matter how we’re ignored, we’re still here, forcing this world to witness us and our greatness. Existing and excelling and resisting extermination. We’re staring down a world that insists our greatness, talent, culture, beauty, are not truly ours, and when commanded to hand it over, step aside, bow down, we continue to defiantly look our oppressors in the eyes and reply, “Come get it.”
unpopular opinion: daisy and john were fucking terrible and their characters sucked. i don’t get the obsession with them i really really don’t. although that might be more the directors fault….but still.
i’m not denying that he gets a lot of unfair racist comments. but like. finn was not a revolutionary character and i don’t think that saying racism is the sole reason the character and actor aren’t getting the attention you think they deserve is fair. both were pretty poor, and his star wars fanboyness was completely unmasked in every scene han solo was in/on set for and his inability to keep that in check totally ruined his performance for the remainder of the movie.
him and daisy just seemed like ridiculous children for most of the movie if i recall that were either getting directed really poorly or just couldn’t get their act together; literally.
can’t wait for rogue one…that chick looks bad ass and forrest whittaker looks dope. TFA did not live up to this tumblr hype it’s gotten at all.
This response is just such textbook White Nonsense ™ I don’t even know where to begin.
Do I start with the entitlement and audacity required for you to think that I care at all about your opinion? Or how obtuse you have to be to reply to this with general criticism of the film and include Daisy (who I never mentioned, because this isn’t about her) and how that was undeniably an effort to deflect from your own racism because somewhere in the corridors of your mind you knew it wouldn’t look good for you to just shit on John’s performance alone but you had to say something on a post that wasn’t about you because you felt implicated and, like a hit dog, needed to holler?
Or do I start with your naiveté in thinking that you, a 23 yr old white girl, first year M.A. in Psychology student can tell me, a grown Black woman with multiple bachelor’s degrees and a law degree from one of the top law schools in America with a focus on Critical Race Theory who also runs a nonprofit centering intersectional media representation, whether ANY Black character qualifies as “revolutionary” much less whether me rightfully labelling racism (i.e. the systematic and systemic belittling, demonizing, and ignoring of Black characters, which has manifested in the Star Wars fandom in regards to Finn) is “fair.” As if what’s really unfair in all this is your little white feelings being hurt by a post that has nothing to do with you and not that a talented Black man and an important Black character are not getting the respect and shine they deserve because they’re Black?! Lol, girl if you don’t sit down, close your mouth, and mind your own business. You are not qualified to speak to me regardless of your disrespectful tone.
Your response is literally a study in Missing The Point 101. You reply to a post in which a Black woman is discussing her response to the racism she has seen and experienced, listed empirical examples (white actors/characters elevated above the status merited by their performances/size of their roles, the disproportionate amount of time John had to audition, the history within the franchise of antiblack racism in their casting choices, the constant disputes and denials that the lead of the film, a Black man, is actually a lead), and specifically discussed the struggles of Black people, with your subjective, amateur, white opinion about acting and direction? Ha. Ha. Ha.
Here’s a free little Psychology lesson for you because you don’t even understand yourself or how your whiteness has simultaneously blinded you to the point and also made you hypersensitive to mentions of race (and you won’t be taught this at the undoubtedly Predominately White Institution you’re attending): Why did you bring up Daisy? Why did you feel the need to cap off your worthless comment with how you’re looking forward to Rogue One with a specific mention of the (white) “chick” and Forrest (sic) Whitaker, the only Black person in that film? It’s because deep down you know what I’m saying is true–that race very much factors into how people belittle and ignore John/Finn, yet you’re desperate to deny that. Your discomfort with confronting and acknowledging racism (the act of which you characterize as unfairness) caused you to veer from your lane and miss the point due to your wild flailing to shut down identifications of types of racism that could implicate you. Because you’re comfortable identifying racism in comments that include slurs because that’s something you weren’t personally involved in. But when faced with a discussion of racism that implicates you and your actions/beliefs/thoughts, you rather spew nonsense than investigate yourself.
Lastly, don’t ever curse at me. In fact, don’t ever reblog another one of my posts to add your nonsense. My post making its way to your dash is not an invitation. I don’t need your worthless two cents because I’m working with foldable currency. Log off Tumblr. Finals are coming up and based on your comment above, you have quite a lot of learning to do, @la-sirena-amor.
ETA: @lovemyths tried to politely redirect you to your lane and this was in your response: “I’d say the only actually good performance in the whole film was adam/kylo.” The only good performance was the young white guy? Typical. You’re so lost you couldn’t find your way to sense with Siri and a flashlight. Please investigate yourself and stop talking.
I thought this was very interesting . It always occurs to me that white people who keep asking things like, why isnt there a white history month, or special white history museum, don’t actually want such a thing, as most of it would consist of various atrocities committed against other groups of people, and these people have trouble dealing,even peripherally, with historical fact.
More analysis of Finn erasure and disregard:
Seriously, let’s look at the mechanisms behind this phenomenon you’ve observed. Let’s figure out why people would be drawn towards BEN as a the default complex character and leave Finn by the wayside.
The obvious first explanation is the power dynamics behind race as a social construct.
Ben is a pasty white dude, and Finn is a gorgeous black man. And no, I am not hiding my bias in this statement at all.
But I’d wager that the politics surrounding race play a huge roll in this situation.
Ben is allowed to be the “complicated anti-hero” in people’s imaginations, because being white in this society has privileges that allow readers and consumers of this media to push aside the fact that he is a mass-murderer, terrorist, and all-around bad person, and chalk it up to making him more “complex” and therefore more worthy of our attention, whether that be as a character to discuss or as something to depict in art. Ben speaks to the dominant, institutionalized narratives in our society that are cherished and upheld.
In contrast, if we were to “allow” the same leeway with Finn, to make him as “complicated” as Ben, the dominant social interpretation of him would include every stereotype we as a society hold about black people. Finn would be “scary”, “terrifying”, “thuggish”, and all the negative connotations that those entail. By infantilizing him, keeping him attached to the more palatable paradigm of masculinity in Poe and StormPilot, Finn is no longer “scary” and doesn’t draw upon our society’s deeper (and unnecessary) fears about people of color.
This is institutionalized racism working its insidious magic.
People don’t recognize their subconscious racist ideas because they have been socialized with them for so long. It’s difficult to recognize something as wrong and out-of-place if it feels natural or has “always been that way”.
Doesn’t change the fact that it is fucking wrong.
Plus, because people aren’t engaging with the character of Finn to the same degree as other characters, it speaks to the marginalization of people in color in general. It taps into the social understanding that people of color are less deserving of our time and energies, therefore less art and media are produced surrounding the black male lead of TFA.
Again, it’s wrong.
And yeah, it starts with R and ends in -ism.
[I could not leave this comment buried under a series of likes and reblogs. I had to post it separately. It was well written. Besides, unequivocally-b is absolutely right; and if anyone believes that the lack of Finn fan-art is due to some phenomenon whereby people are prone to “love villains more than they love heroes,” then why weren’t there massive fan-art of Electro (The Amazing Spiderman 2), Hancock, Blade, Black Panther (not a villain but an advisory to Iron Man), Elijah Price (Unbreakable), Blaise Zabini (Harry Potter) etc. If you can’t explain that one, then I call bullshit. In any case, I thank unequivocally-b for this wonderful reply, because what she wrote was dead-on.]
No offense to the rest of the Agents of SHIELD cast but can we just turn the show into the Robbie and Daisy show with supporting cast Melinda, Mack and Elena? Please and thank you.
And the nonsesne continues:
Fans accusing black female characters of stealing storylines from white female characters is COMMON.
- In The Vampire Diaries, fans accused shippers of stealing Elena Gilbert’s love story by shipping Bonnie Bennett with Damon Salvatore.
- In The Walking Dead, fans have accused the writers of stealing storylines from Andrea and giving them to Michonne by making her Rick’s main love interest.
- In Doctor Who, fans accused Martha Jones of trying to replace Rose Tyler.
- And now in The Flash, fans are accusing the writers of stealing lines and plot points from Caitlin Snow and giving them to Iris West.
All of these women have received backlash from white fangirls who resent seeing black female characters given more screentime over their white favz. When a black woman is introduced into the narrative, white fangirls don’t welcome them as feminist heroes, they see them as a threat to the position of their white fave. Which is odd considering how poorly most black female characters are treated by the writers.
Fans will complain about how useless and irrelevant these black female characters are, but when the writers finally do something interesting with them, they riot. Instead of celebrating the fact that these characters are FINALLY getting screentime and more interesting storylines, all they see is a black woman stealing what would naturally go to a white woman.
Not everything black female characters do is an attempt to steal from or “one up” a white female character. Black women can exist on their own and have their own struggles, romances and friendships. Iris West is not trying to be like Caitlin Snow, Michonne is not stealing Rick from Andrea, Martha Jones is not trying to replace Rose Tyler and Bonnie Bennett is not trying to replace Elena Gilbert.
NOT EVERYTHING BELONGS TO YOU.
They only want black women to say bitchy one-liners, prop up the other characters, and die as a sacrificial lamb for the white leads.
*This is why Luke Cage is so incredibly important to us, why we have so many hopes for this show, why just watching the trailer for this nearly had me in tears.
Luke Cage was created in 1972.
Four years earlier, in 1968, Martin Luther King, Jr. was shot and killed.
Five years before that, in 1963, Medgar Evers was shot and killed.
Eight years before that, in 1955, a young Black man named Emmett Till was tortured, then shot and killed.
These events, and numerous others with frightening similarity, happened in a line, and in the early years of the first decade to reap the social benefits of the Civil Rights Movement, Marvel Comics gives the fans (and the world) a Black male superhero whose primary superhuman aspect… is that he’s bulletproof.
Not flight, or super speed, or a power ring.
The superhuman ability of being impervious to bullets.
Superheroes. Action heroes. Fantasy heroes.
Is there any doubt the power fantasy of the Black man in the years following multiple assassinations of his leaders and children by way of the gun would be superhuman resistance to bullets?
In American society, the Black man has come a long way from the terrors of the past handful of centuries, only to crash right into the terrors of the 21st century. Some of those terrors being the same exact ones their grandparents had to face and survive — or not.
There are Black men who are wealthy, powerful, formidable and/or dangerous. They can affect change undreamt of by their parents, and their parents’ parents. Their children will be able to change the world in ways we can intuit and others we can barely begin to try and predict.
But a bullet can rip through their flesh and their future with no effort whatsoever.
And so we look at Luke Cage, a man who gets shot on a regular basis, whose body language is such that he is expecting to be shot at, prepared for the impact — because he knows he can take it.
And maybe, in the subconscious of the uni-mind of Marvel Comics, is the understanding that Luke Cage may unfortunately always be a relevant fantasy idea for the Black man.
2012 – Trayvon Martin is shot and killed.
2013 – Jonathan Ferrell is shot and killed.
2014 – Michael Brown is shot and killed.
2015/2016 – Luke Cage premieres on Netflix.
I look forward to seeing if the Luke Cage of that show will have a true understanding of his power and what he symbolizes.
Reading that was like getting kicked in the gut. And yet it feels like that’s not enough.
Mike Colter Is Bulletproof
The man behind Marvel’s first black superhero talks race, rage and redemption
An examination of Asian women stereotypes and how they began. Not having access to the experience of Asian women made this enormously informative for me. I hope it’s enlightening for you too.
Cristen breaks down how Western greed and lusty French dude helped cement the fetishized stereotype of submissive East Asian Women.