There have been a number of posts on Tumblr critiquing Civil War. I loved the movie but I fee like these are also very valid critiques depending on the lens through which the movie is viewed.
Something a lot of people didn’t catch in this movie was Sam’s reliving of the trauma that resulted in him meeting Steve, in the first place. The fandom so frequently focuses on the manpain of all the white male characters, that they often forget, there’s enough trauma to pass around to all of the characters. I have yet to see any major metas written about what happened to T’Challa, Rhodey, and Sam, or character breakdowns for Nick Fury (although I have read a few posts vilifying Nick for various imaginary sins.) I find the trauma of these characters just as compelling as Tony’s,Steve’s, or Bucky’s traumas, but no one talks about those.
It’s telling that the first thing Sam says to Tony, after what happened, is to ask about Rhodey’s welfare. It gives you some idea of where his mind is at for the latter half of the movie. Notice in the prison scene, that Sam is noticeably quieter than usual, and is one of the few people who doesn’t snark at Tony, when he comes to see them. Once again, he watched a colleague, possibly a friend, shot down in front of him and couldn’t do anything but watch. There are definitely some feels happening there.
Can we stop minimizing the physical trauma inflicted on Nick Fury in Cap 2, please?
“He trusted someone to cut him open and fake his death”
Yeah. Okay it’s not like he took several bullets through his chest or anything and would actually REQUIRE THAT SURGERY ANYWAY.
How fucking dense are you?
HE WAS LITERALLY IN A HORRIFIC CAR CRASH AND THEN SHOT IN THE CHEST. Like did they not hear the list of his injuries in the secret hospital he needed some pretty serious medical attention he could have died (and not just from taking heart stopping serum when already injured I imagine there was a chance he wouldn’t wake up from that too). Like that wasn’t faked?? It’s very likely that the surgery was real too and saved his life they just administered the serum towards the end so he could fake his death. But people need to realize it very nearly wasn’t fake.
Like I mean, even going off of Maria’s reactions… she’s like bracing herself for him not waking up and what she’d going to have to do after that.
I am so sick of people minimizing this shit. This man damn near died and still got up and saved the damn world from Hydra. Fuck the haters, Nick Fury is better than your weak ass faves.
Yeah exactly Maria knew about the serum and the plan but was clearly still very upset! It’s not like he was totally fine and faking it or something she knew he wasn’t out of the woods yet and he may very well still die either from the serum or his injuries and she was concerned for him and what would happen if he died.
I really hate how people can write these long metas about all the traumas Steve or Tony or Loki or whoever have gone through, whether real or assumed, and dissect their every tiny interaction, and yet these same people ignore the depth of equally amazing characters like Rhodey, or Nick Fury, or Sam Wilson. Nick Fury is not your scapegoat for when you don’t have anyone else to blame for what your faves are going through, and Sam and Rhodey aren’t there to be the quirky sidekicks of Steve and Tony.
You’ve got it in one! We are expected to be incredibly sympathetic to these white dudes pain but ignore or minimize it when it happens to to Black men. Like Sam’s loss of Riley and likely PTSD is totally ignored in favor of him being the supportive sidekick and people are minimizing the hell Nick went through in Cap 2 and then got up and fought after while making 5000 posts about Steve or Tony or Bucky’s pain.
And there it is. His pain and emotional arc don’t matter to fandom, therefore his relationships and connections to other people are easier to write off and ignore.
Can you even imagine what this fandom would do if some white dude “moved heaven and earth” to bring Phil back to life? It’d be a love fest! But here we are. Canon proof of what Phil means to Nick and nobody says shit.
Because Nick Fury’s pain and feelings do not matter.
(obviously this goes for Sam and Rhodey and Mack and Trip (his death is fodder for Skye and the white kids, his feelings on anything are never dealt with) and I’m sure we’ll throw T’Challa on that list too eventually.)
Can I just ask why Tumblr has to be such a terrible place like this? Like don’t get me wrong there are some great things and great people on Tumblr but what people like you do is shit on a Fandom constantly for anything you can muster. Like just stop. Don’t get me wrong I understand that Sam, Rodney and Nick are all important with a lot of back story and lore but keep in mind that they have only been *SUPPORTING* characters so far (minus Nick Fury with CA:WS if you wish to argue that). If you look at something like Jessica Jones of the MCU you have Luke Cage who get tremendous amounts of story and you learn a lot about his pain and struggles but he was also a major role in the show. So please people just stop with the bullshit..
I can’t exactly parse out what you mean by this. I brought up the fact that fandom is shit about Nick’s injuries and pain and you…
I don’t know what you want. You want me to talk about Luke and his pain? Okay I’m all for that conversation. On a post about LUKE instead of pushing Nick’s pain aside for someone else’s.
If you want me to stop talking about my favorite character and how fandom shits all over him… too fucking bad. Don’t like it? Call out the racists in your fucking perfect fandom.
So when YOU people stop being racist fucking garbage, I’ll shut up.
They want you to stop talking about Sam and Nick and “Rodney” (which is hard bc he doesn’t exist) because they’re side characters and don’t DESERVE to have their pain explored and we should focus on “main” characters like Luke- a brand new character who still does not have his own show/movie out yet and who wasn’t mentioned in this post. They’re just derailing and making excuses because talking about the toxic bahvior in fandom is clearly the problem not the actual bad behavior. Maybe if they’d bothered to pay attention long enough to learn Rhodey’s name they’d be able to care about his pain.
I just want to scream and tug all my hair out over spaetz’s comment. Like, LOTS of people are side characters in the MCU.
Howard Stark? Side character in three different circles: Captain America (thanks to CATFA), Agent Carter, and the Iron Man movies. There is more written about his involvement with S.H.I.E.L.D. than about Nick’s and he’s more likely to be featured in meta posts and prompts on the kinkmemes, too.
Phil Coulson? Side character up until #CoulsonLives, then he gets his own fucking show to stare in.
Clint Barton? Side character they randomly threw a half-assed backstory to in AoU (in Avengers, he literally exists just to motivate Natasha). He still has way more fucking fic and meta and fandom support than the three black guys that got mentioned combined.
BUCKY FUCKING BARNES IS A SIDE CHARACTER. He’s Captain America’s sidekick! HE EXISTS AS THE WINTER SOLDIER TO FURTHER CAPTAIN AMERICA’S EMOTIONAL CHARACTER ARC AND YOU CAN’T EVEN SPIT IN THIS FANDOM WITHOUT HITTING SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT BUCKY BARNES’ FEELINGS AND ISSUES.
Wow, I wonder what these side characters have in common that Nick Fury doesn’t have… *stares into the camera like this is the Office*
While we’re on the topic of Civil War having weird narratives: Peter Parker’s speech about being a Superhero completely aligns with Steve’s worldview, not Tony’s… yet Marvel had Spidey side with Tony. It makes his storyline a little muddled, because while the narrative objectively connects Peter to Tony through their heart-to-heart conversation, Marvel wrote Peter as being very similar to Steve. With the characterization they gave us, there’s no way Peter would have joined Tony’s side if he knew anything about the fight.
Peter says to Tony ”If you can do the things that I can, but you don’t, and then bad things happen… they happen because of you” .
Which is the same philosophy that Steve has, and says to Tony twice in this movie: first when discussing the Accords – “What if there’s somewhere we need to go, but [the UN] won’t let us?” – and then later, in a more personal tone: “If I see a situation pointed South, I can’t ignore it”.
Both Steve and Peter believe their powers almost obligate them to help people whenever they can, because they can. Taking that choice to help out of their hands doesn’t make them any less responsible for what occurs – it just shifts the blame. Which is why Steve won’t sign the Accords, and Peter helps people even though he’s just a kid who’d prefer to play football. They want to help, they can help… so they do. It’s that simple honesty and true belief that really defines Captain America, and we see it here in Peter, too.
Tony accepts Peter’s answer even while realizing that it’s Steve’s argument (which is weird, since he fought with Steve on the same statement only hours before), and replies “So you want to look out for the little guy, do your part, make the world a better place?”. Peter agrees and reiterates that the ‘little guy’ is his reason for being a superhero.
Which is interesting, because Steve has always been the little guy from Brooklyn who just wanted to help make the world a better place. Steve and Bucky are the underdog in this fight… not Tony and the government. This aligns Peter with Steve even more, but Marvel still tries to connect him to Tony over their intelligence and shared love of technology.
Tony gets Peter to fight for his side using Steve’s ideology. And Marvel doesn’t really acknowledge the irony in that. It’s especially unsettling when Peter parrots back what Tony said about Steve, not realizing it’s actually Tony’s problem in the film: “You’re wrong, but you think you’re right. That makes you dangerous”.
Give me a moment – I’d like to rewrite Tony’s speech to Peter and give it the same meaning in different words:
“Your work could be a gift to mankind. You could shape the century. Without you, we’ll fail, and the Avengers can’t give the world the freedom it deserves.”
Sorry, Marvel; from where I’m standing, Iron Man has officially become a bad guy.
I also liked how Peter told Cap that Tony “said you’d say that, and you’d be wrong”. The way Tony handled the situation with Peter was just wrong on so many levels and illustrates why *Tony* is the one who needs oversight. Because Tony is a man who does not seem to learn from his mistakes.
In AoU he builds a killer robot(it’s purpose is to protect in place of the Avengers, don’t tell me it wasn’t programmed to kill), so not only is he in the weapons business again but when it goes wrong he takes the fleshy robot downloaded with Ultron’s consciousness and adds some Jarvis and a magic space rock that has the power to enslave and by the grace of God or I don’t know what he manages to Forrest Gump(thank you “The Mexican”) his way out of an even worse disaster.
In Civil War he’s confronted by the mother of a young man who died in the Sokovian disaster. Laying aside how offensive it is that it has to be an American to die before Tony(and we the audience in the US of A?) has it really hit home the kind of massive collateral damage his invention caused and resolves that everyone(kthxTony, we all knew about the killer robot and fully supported building it to make us obsolete) has to do better. As soon as things aren’t going his way he brings in a young man without the consent or knowledge of his guardian to be his ace in the hole in another potentially fatal confrontation.
I love RDJ, I enjoy Tony at times even if he lashes out and I would never be able to work around someone who has so little respect for anyone’s boundaries but his own. This makes it very difficult for me to trust Tony as a character to do the right thing. I think he wants to, and means to but he’s not learning and when he doesn’t get it right things go horribly wrong and others suffer for his hubris.
He wants to and means to, yes. But Tony Stark is a concrete example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
See, this is why I think they did a pretty brilliant job with the conflict: because the more you disagree with Tony, the more you start feeling like there need to be oversights and restraints for Tony. I completely agree with him that he needs to be kept in check! And I can’t just turn around and say “well, #notallsuperheroes” because they all have the potential to go off. Tony’s just the one who’s most likely.