More Tumblr Talks

*This post is going to be long and pretty heavy. Its  about Fandom Racism reproducing  media tropes. The reason why you’ve been hearing so much lately about racism in fandom is because marginalized “others” have become much more vocal about how they wish to be depicted, not just onscreen, but within the fandoms, as well. And what they have been saying is Fandom needs to start  examining why/how it responds to the media it consumes. 
Fandom seems to be undergoing  growing pains as people begin to realize that geekfandom isn’t as welcoming, nor as progressive,  as everyone has been claiming. As I said, in a previous post, this is not an indictment of all fandom. The bigotries on display are simply reiterations of the wider culture, and fandom does not exist in a vacuum.
For example:


I wanted my first-year film students to understand what happens to a story when actual human beings inhabit your characters, and the way they can inspire storytelling. And I wanted to teach them how to look at headshots and what you might be able to tell from a headshot. So for the past few years I’ve done a small experiment with them.

Some troubling shit always occurs.It works like this: I bring in my giant file of head shots, which include actors of all races, sizes, shapes, ages, and experience levels. Each student picks a head shot from the stack and gets a few minutes to sit with the person’s face and then make up a little story about them.

Namely, for white men, they have no trouble coming up with an entire history, job, role, genre, time, place, and costume. They will often identify him without prompting as “the main character.” The only exception? “He would play the gay guy.” For white women, they mostly do not come up with a job (even though it was specifically asked for), and they will identify her by her relationships. “She would play the mom/wife/love interest/best friend.” I’ve heard “She would play the slut” or “She would play the hot girl.” A lot more than once.

For nonwhite men, it can be equally depressing. “He’s in a buddy cop movie, but he’s not the main guy, he’s the partner.” “He’d play a terrorist.” “He’d play a drug dealer.” “A thug.” “A hustler.” “Homeless guy.” One Asian actor was promoted to “villain.”

For nonwhite women (grab onto something sturdy, like a big glass of strong liquor), sometimes they are “lucky” enough to be classified as the girlfriend/love interest/mom, but I have also heard things like “Well, she’d be in a romantic comedy, but as the friend, you know?” “Maid.” “Prostitute.” “Drug addict.”

I should point out that the responses are similar whether the group is all or mostly-white or extremely racially mixed, and all the groups I’ve tried this with have been about equally balanced between men and women, though individual responses vary. Women do a little better with women, and people of color do a little better with people of color, but female students sometimes forget to come up with a job for female actors and black male students sometimes tell the class that their black male actor wouldn’t be the main guy.

Once the students have made their pitches, we interrogate their opinions. “You seem really sure that he’s not the main character – why? What made you automatically say that?” “You said she was a mom. Was she born a mom, or did she maybe do something else with her life before her magic womb opened up and gave her an identity? Who is she as a person?” In the case of the “thug“, it turns out that the student was just reading off his film resume. This brilliant African American actor who regularly brings houses down doing Shakespeare on the stage and more than once made me weep at the beauty and subtlety of his performances, had a list of film credits that just said “Thug #4.” “Gang member.” “Muscle.” Because that’s the film work he can get. Because it puts food on his table.

So, the first time I did this exercise, I didn’t know that it would turn into a lesson on racism, sexism, and every other kind of -ism. I thought it was just about casting. But now I know that casting is never just about casting, and this day is a real teachable opportunity. Because if we do this right, we get to the really awkward silence, where the (now mortified) students try to sink into their chairs. Because, hey, most of them are proud Obama voters! They have been raised by feminist moms! They don’t want to be or see themselves as being racist or sexist. But their own racism and sexism is running amok in the room, and it’s awkward.

Source: letthetruthlaughthis is iti’ve seen and reblogged this beforebut this is truly ity’all don’t even know how racist sexist etc you are but will INSIST that you aren’tstop thataccept that you are and work to learn to be betteryou are not specialyou’re just as indoctrinated as the rest of us and pretending  you’re not is a big part of the problemracismmedia sexismmedia racismsave
*About how WoC are often treated in media:

Anonymous asked:

i was telling my sister to watch preacher and I explained it as “It kinda gives me early supernatural vibes except they acknowledge black people exist and the black woman doesn’t die at the end of the episode.” thats pretty mucha ll it took to get her to watch it

yeah that’s pretty much why I got into it

a supernatural show where the black woman doesn’t die???? and isn’t treated like shit??? LET’S FUCKIN’ GO. plus the southern church aesthetics are alright, makes me feel nostalgic.

dom loves her anons they’re so nice




 *How PoC in interracial relationships are required to do all the emotional labor for that relationship.

Speaking of which:



 Something I can’t help but hate is this idea that in an interracial relationship between a White person and a PoC:

  • the PoC is always heavy on being the caretaker.
  • The PoC is always shouldering and sloughing through someone else’s hurts and baggage not because they want/need to in the context of the relationship, but because of White person bringing their own racial and personal baggage that they never would’ve unpacked otherwise if it wasn’t for them dating a PoC.
  • The fact that it’s mostly the PoC that’s doing most of this unpacking, while White person is mostly oblivious.
  • The former is almost always written as White person being naive, innocent, or spun off as enlightened, but stops right before White person begins to consider the implications of the environment around them and how that could contribute to their partner’s problem.
  • The fact that the PoC gets harsher scrutiny and loads less support in dealing in whichever/whatever multiple traumas they may have.
  • The PoC may or may not talk about these traumas, but if they do, they ultimately get glossed over and undermined.
  • It’s the fact that dating a PoC is seen as “progressive points” (ugh)
  • The fact that “progressive points” (ugh) are a pass to say slightly microagressive slick shit.
  • It’s not even all that big. Sometimes it can be a comment about how huge their genitals are. Sometimes it’s comments on how their Brown/Black skin is somehow “dark”, “scary”, “mysterious”, or “bad-boy material”.
  • Sometimes it’s the fact that even though Brown and Black skin rarely gets compared to Zircon, Diaspore, Amber, the smoky wood finish of a loved pine chair, the smell of the sweet, soft, pure victory that is Coca Butter, or Shea, we constantly get words like cinnamon or chocolate.(Ironically enough, we never get Adobo, Goya, rich Palm Oil or Maggie cubes.) Spice is nice and it’s our fucking game, but we can go farther!
  • Sometimes it the fact that the PoC may not get much elaborated on them (maybe one or two features) but the fact that White person can be endlessly praised, even worshiped/glorified endlessly for having conventionally attractive features.
  • Sometimes it’s everything.
  •  Sometimes it’s nothing. And-and-&-&-
  • Sometimes it is what it motherfucking is.

But sometimes, when it comes to writing, life, and the world around us, I wish we could give PoC more room. More room to be cuddled. More room to be delicate. More room to be docile, and loving, and even care taking, but on even footing and less fetishistic and uneven ground.

I want to see PoC fervently in love with each other. I want them to revere each other, choose each other, fall in love and then choose to stay together with each other. I want them to be active agents and participants in their love; I don’t want them to accept passivity because it’s superimposed on them. I don’t want them to accept hypersexuality because it’s superimposed on them. I don’t want them to accept being a fuck for “progressive points” because it’s superimposed on them. Their wants and needs and should come as easily and wanting to consideration; especially when it comes to matters outside of sex. Sex doesn’t even have to be in the picture at all!

When I wrote this post, I was talking in a context of LGBTQ couples. That applied throughout this entire post. It all started because I was thinking about porn, and fandom, and life, and how it all got mixed up in my head and how all of this vomited out. But I have exhausted my words. All I can say is that I want everything, everything this world can give to us, that it SHOULD return to us after roots were deliberately yanked from this ground and scattered all over in the name of a love that places us as secondary. Exceptional. An openly taboo measure for ‘progress’. I want nothing but everything. I want everything for us.

I want everything for us and more.

Cc: @russianspacegeckosexparty and @fandomshatepeopleofcolor I wrote this quite a while ago, but now that I know I’m not alone, it resonate better, tbh.

Source: little-house-of-kurian



*As I’ve said, racism is insidious , and if you do not examine the media you consume, or your motives and responses to it, then all you will do is end up reproducing the same stereotypes for WoC, and other marginalized people, in the media you end up creating.

The following  conversation is a perfect example of how  people who believe themselves to be the most progressive, are the ones who let down their guard, and don’t examine their media enough, thereby allowing things they don’t intend, to creep into their work. I don’t believe this writer meant, or intended,  to do harm, but intention is not magic. Such tropes and stereotypes will occur even when the person is not actually trying to be racist. This is an indication of the insidiousness of white supremacy, not the evil of the writer:

Winter Soldier in Wakanda













I need a fic where the Dora Milaje adopt Bucky.

Imagine him being safe for the first time. He cannot really hurt them, he is SAFE with them. And they can help him heal, protest him as they know how and he would give them his respect, his help and his experience.

The Dora Milaje would never let anyone take him, would not let anyone take one of their own and he would be one of their own. They would spar and teach him the language and get him an arm with a vibranium alloy and armatur with vibranium mesh.

He would be theirs to protect, because their king asked them to, but also because Bucky would deserze to have someone in his corner, because this would be the right thing to do.


What do they get out of this or is this just gonna be Black people taking care of some white person for no reason?

This person is literally taking the Dora Milaje and turning them into an entire Mammy squad for Bucky Barnes. Bucky is not one of their own and he never will be. Their own are the 11 Wakandans that were blown up because of Wanda Maximoff’s incompetence. Their own was the beloved king they lost to the Avengers’ negligence to account for civilians while they go about literally destroying entire cities. Their own is T’Challa, who violently lost his father and, despite that, brought Bucky into Wakanda because he refused to allow his vengeance to consume him.

Bucky is not their own and he never will be. You can miss the Dora Milaje with this Mammy glorification.

I cannot fucking believe…

You know what? LMFAOOO



Yes, i understand the difference between doing the right thing and going out of Your way to provide emotional support, that is a very valid point of course. And my wording might have been a little unfortunate.

Still, is that not what the grief council ours are doing? I can see the Dora Milaje being horrified at what happened. Also willing to help. That is the proper human instinct, be the person black or white.

Why are we talking about servitude however? The first post was never meant to sound like they would be his servants. More like his teachers. Is that not what you would do, if you had a stranger come into your country completely clueless? Teach him some language, help him out? Become their friend? A little bit of topic: if I offended anyone, it was clearly not my intention. For that please accept my apologies. The idea for the fic was half-baked and possibly inconsiderate, however it was never meant to offend. The makes of the film make Wakanda a place, where Bucky found refuge. I merely wanted to see a version of a follow up on that idea.


But you still haven’t answered any of the questions presented to you. What you described is a mammy trope. Black women being reduced to caretakers of non black people. Also, you imply that nothing would take Bucky from them (lmao), but he will never be their priority over actual Wakandans. If his presence ever puts one of their own in danger, his ass is out. No questions asked. No hesitation. He is not one of them. But you have not once made any effort to show Bucky being their friend or him helping them with anything. You literally only talked about what they could do for him as if their worth was entirely dependent on their usefulness to a white man. Do you not understand how fucked up that is? At all?


I understand perfectly what you are trying to say, yes. I understand how you see this post. As I have previously written, it was never supposed to seem like I was endorsing any kind of servitude or neo-colonial attitudes. Because I don’t. Apparently I just don’t think things through sometimes and write before I think.

I find the idea of them being Bucky’s mommies insulting to both Dora Milaje and Bucky. They would definitely not coddle him or mammy him as some of you put it. That I definitely do not see.

However I do not think they would give him up. Of course politics would demand they hand him over, but I rather think, that they
It king’s word, who promised to keep him safe matters.

I could of course talk about what he could do for them, but should he be brought back up, the relationship would be mostly one sided for a while, because that is what happens with a person recovering. They need help and people helping out rarely get much in return.

I could write about what he has to offer to them back, but they don’t really need anything he could offer. Except maybe train with them. But the Dora Milaje are already one of the most formidable forces in the Marvel universe, so I doubt he could offer them much in this area. Similar with the ideas, that he could own them a favour, be willing to help defend the country. Wakandans do not need him for that.


You have yet to tell why they would be so protective of him. What is so special about this random white boy that his life should be placed over Wakandans. He is not one of them. And you say it’s insulting to make them into his mammies, but that’s literally what you’re doing. Whether you did so intentionally or not is immaterial. You admitted that he has nothing to bring to this relationship and that it would be entirely one sided in his favor, but then insist that they would be totally equal. Why does always happen when it comes to Black women dealing with whites?

I legitimately hope that Bucky Barnes remains on ice for the entirely of the Black Panther movie because otherwise we’re going to see so much more of this awful meta reducing Black people to 2D cutouts meant to cater to white characters. The movie ain’t even out yet and I’m sick of reading about how good the Black characters would be at providing for someone’s white fave. It’s sickening.

The Dora Miljae would sooner kick Bucky into a predator infested lake than arrange their lives around him.

Stop trying to write narratives centering white men being catered to and coddled by black women!

Bucky is a slab of ice. Dassit.


Dear white fandom:

Wakanda is not a daycare for troubled white men.

*Black people do not exist to take care of white people.

Your penance is watching all 4 parts of the new Roots back to back.

Trying to think of a situation where a black or brown skinned character could kill anyone from a western or European nation LET ALONE a king or president and fandom would headcanon or write them as a precious cinnamon roll who the secret service should coddle befriend and protect.

Hell… We can barely even get that for black and brown people who are kind, respectful, loving and canonically romantically linked to a white character.





*Its interesting to me that Orci needs to have this explained to him. This is an example of the general cluelessness of white owned media. If he missed this trope, then, as a straight, white, middle-class, cis-gender man, he has probably missed all of them, having had no incentive to learn any of them, and  this is one of the more well known Black stereotypes.

This is another reason why representation behind the scenes is important, too. Had there been a PoC behind the scenes at Sleepy Hollow, the showrunners could have been warned about what they were about to do. (Although, I still feel like that wouldn’t have stopped them from doing it, though.)

If the fans themselves have to be vigilant in guarding against offensive stereotypes, then this is even more true of those who create the content in the first place. How can they guard against stereotypes that they are wholly ignorant of? It certainly explains the decision making process behind Sleepy Hollow. How can you be a writer and not know some of these tropes?



I usually just ignore their ridiculousness, but I couldn’t let this pass. This kind of ignorance in Hollywood is exactly why the Magic Negro Trope keeps being trotted out again and again. This type of thinking explains exactly why S2 happened and why Abbie sacrificed herself over and over again until it eventually killed her.

They don’t realize that this is just as trite and predictable as “black guy dies first” in horror movies. Instead they classify this as dramatic. The two tropes have the same  motivation–let the black guy die first, let the black woman sacrifice herself because nobody cares and the white audience will continue watching without major discomfort. I think the green light for SH Season 4 confirms that..

Source: fangirl-utopia
*And just to let you know, I have been paying attention, I have noticed the gradual whitewashing of Teen Wolf, or just never developing any of its characters of color, like Boyd:
Boyd has no family, no story, no background, no home, and when he even makes his brief cameos in the show, he’s usually somebody’s backup or lackey. He has no human complexity, and his one moment of individuality comes when he says he wants to be like Scott (i.e. the lead character on Teen Wolf). Which is then promptly ignored and never covered again. Erica gets a storyline. Isaac gets a storyline. Matt the photographer gets a storyline. So where’s Boyd’s?
The showrunners answer to this argument seems to be: “Hey I’m just a boring, self centered white person with a very limited view of life and the world so what do you want from me?(Read here)
*See, post above for: This is not an excuse to not write non-white characters.

‘just write the fic anyway’




here’s the tl;dr on my post about white fandom choosing white cis m/m fanworks to write over poc m/m fanworks:

this post is americentric and for fellow whitey mcwhite fans.

potential consequences for writing something kinky and fucked up for white m/m ship:

–someone might say your kinks are gross
–nobody noticing you wrote anything at all in the sea of fandom

consequences for writing something kinky and fucked up for poc m/m ship:

–someone calling your kinks racist
–getting called a racist
–your fic getting plastered on tumblr for being racist
–getting dogpiled for being racist
–getting chased out of fandom for being racist

‘but the person is totally racist!’ how do you know that from reading their fic? maybe they’re just a shitty writer

‘but there were racist stereotypes in the fic!’ are you totally sure you’re not just reading too much into it?

‘i’m totally sure’ call them out privately



‘but what if they’re a meanie head when i call them out privately?’ i dunno man, figure it out

the end


Once again we see a white fan being more worried about being called out for racism and white fandom’s delicate sensibilities, than with actually being racist. No wonder fandom is still so horrible on this matter.

But to tackle your points

–someone calling your kinks racist 

Newsflash, some kinks are racist when applied to a character of color because they play directly into a racist stereotype. (E.g. hypersexualised Latinx person, Black man witha  big dick.)

Stop treating these stereotypes as some sort of esoteric knowlegde that is impossible to obtain. Google exists and have for over a decade, use it! You’d be surprised what how many problems a quick search and 30 minutes of reading could fix, but white fandom refuse to do even this little.

–getting called a racist

Newflash, if you write something racist people are going to call you racist because you arebeing racist. Whether you want to A) stop being racist and fix it, or B) if you choose to perpetuate your racism is entirely up to you.

–your fic getting plastered on tumblr for being racist

If you go with option B) or write something that is so horribly racist that even 5 seconds Googling shit would have prevented you doing it, yeah this can happen. Otherwise it’s unlikely.

–getting dogpiled for being racist

If you go with option B) then this will happen, but only if you go with option B). Apologizing and fixing what you did will prevent this from occurring, it’s really that easy fellow white people.

–getting chased out of fandom for being racist

See above.

‘but the person is totally racist!’ how do you know that from reading their fic? maybe they’re just a shitty writer

A racist trope does not stop being a racist trope just because you’re a good or bad writer. Inserting whiteness where it shouldn’t occur (e.g. Wakanda) doesn’t stop being racist just because you’re a good a bad writer. Level of writing ability has literally nothing to do with it.

‘but there were racist stereotypes in the fic!’ are you totally sure you’re not just reading too much into it?

No. Just no. You’re reading too much into it is the go to argument by bigots to get away with their shit, be it racism, misogyny, homophobia or whatever. Chances are the answer is a loud resounding, NO!.

‘i’m totally sure’ call them out privately

AO3 does not allow for PMs and on tumblr, if you put racist shit in the character or ship tags I will point it out. I won’t scream at you, or mock you, or anything, but I will tell you. If you then choose to double down on you racism or start whitesplaining, that’s entirely up to you.




I. Said. No! They decide to be racist in public, so they get told in public.

You keep treating being called out for racist behavior as being worse somehow than actually being racist. The feelings and sensibilities of white fans should not be more or better protected than that those of fans of color, yet that is what you demand here. That we protect the tender sensibilities of white fans over the real hamr and pain their racism causes to fans of color.

‘but what if they’re a meanie head when i call them out privately?’ i dunno man, figure it out

You mean what to do if they insist on keeping on being racist despite being called out? I would say I would drag their ass over hot coal, but chances are that my followers – many of whom are fans of color – would have got to them before I did.

White fandom’s feelings are not sacrosanct. Being called out for racist behavior or for using racist tropes is not worse than actually being racist or using those tropes.

Learning to treat characters of color with respect and as fully human and not play into racist stereotypes is not that hard, stop using it as some lame ass excuse for your own racism.

Will you f*ck up? Yes. The key is not to double down on your racism or start whitesplaining. Apologize and fix it. That’s all. And ffs learn to you Google people.

This post by a white woman who writes a lot of kinky Stormpilot fic (gasp!) is always relevant when this particular load of BS pops up.

I am cautious at times, but I’m never afraid. I’m not so selfish that I’m worried about how me hurting someone might lead to negative results for myself. I just don’t want to hurt other people. This preemptive fear business that sets you up as the victim if you potentially hurt other people before you’ve even hurt them is the rotten core at each argument like this I see.

… If someone decides not to write FinnPoe because you don’t like that people get offended by a, b, or c that’s entirely on them. There have been over 2,000 FinnPoe fics, and the vast vast majority of them haven’t been called out or criticized in any way. Calm down. There are no crowd of pitchfork wielding sjws storming the castle doors and attacking everyone.

fandom racism
Racism in the fandom of videogames, although this  shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

Racists in DA Fandom (Dragon Age)





So, I’ve noticed that there’s two types of toxic fans.

Type A is the blatant racist. They’re the ones that tell People of Color to shut up. They’re the ones writing blatant and harmful tropes. They’re the ones who cry bullying and send anon hate. They can usually be spotted by their blog headers, “Anti-SJW,” or “Free Speech Advocate” or reblogs of “don’t like don’t read” posts. They’re easy to block because they fly their hate flags.

Type B is a bit different. The False Ally. Type B is someone like Renmiri who reblogs a ton of social justice stuff, and then turns around and supports racist creators, citing “free speech” or “it’s just fiction” or “art.” They’re the type that I really hate. Because when you glance over someone’s blog, you think “sure, seems alright, lots of feminist and social justice stuff here!” and then the come out with some flaccid excuse to defend some racist creator, just when you’re really hoping for some reinforcement. You want your fellow white people to stand next to the creators of color and say they will not stand for this behavior, but they don’t.

And little by little, people like Renmiri chip away at the trust that POC have in their white friends. Little by little they dig, until black women feel alone, like their works are going to be plagiarized, like their bodies don’t matter, like their experiences don’t matter.

Until nothing is left but loneliness and anxiety.

I’m not great with words, but I won’t stand by and watch my black friends get torn down again and again.

And to those who fall into the type B category:


There’s a third type. A type even more painful and insidious than the first:

Type C – The Friend

You’re friends with a white fan (or if you’re black, any non-black fan) and you’re firmly convinced they Get It, that they’re on your side, that they truly understand what you’re dealing with and sympathize.

And then little things start to pop up. Like why are they liking/reblogging posts of known racists, especially someone who has been EXTREMELY hateful toward you? Why don’t they ever comment on your content anymore? Would it kill them to step in and say “oh hey this isn’t cool” on occasion? If you confront them on it, suddenly you realize that they were never your friend at all, not really.

And low and behold apparently you’ve been too loud, too negative, or they prefer the white racist to you. They unfollow you because “all the drama you post, I don’t want it ruining the game or the fandom for me!” As if YOU were the one to produce racist (or homophobic or transphobic) content, instead of the ones railing against it.

They’ll quietly cheer when someone tries to “take you down a peg” because you had the gall to point out their racist behavior. When you ask them why, what happened, the answers will be luke warm and uncomfortable, leaving you at sea as to how to respond.

I’ve unfollowed and blocked more of a few of the Type C category, or had them do the same to me. People I thought I was actually friends with, people I emailed, and skyped with and interacted with outside the confines of mobile.

I have white friends in the fandom still, but you can believe, in the back of my head? I’m just waiting for them to drop me like a hot rock the day I say something too controversial, or take a stab at their white fave. Hell, it doesn’t even have to be a white FAN, I once called a white actor ugly and had someone flounce on me.

I keep telling myself not to get invested in friendships On Here, but I can’t. I love connecting with people, I love the feeling of comradery and kinship. I just stopped making the mistake of believing it’s anything but temporary.

Eventually that knife in the back is coming, but at least now I’m prepared for it.

And honestly all of you white folks out there who decry these people who are so blatant? The ones who read Zora’s post and noded along? Trust me, you’re friends with the quiet ones already. And maybe when you find out who they are, that’s when you’ll join the ranks. How long before your white faves become more important than your black ones?

Just something to consider.

Type C will crawl under your skin and gaslight the fuck out of you.

For example: I was once bullied off a website based on my gender. All my male buddies? The ones who I stayed up late talking to? The ones who I exchanged Christmas cards with?

They didn’t do a fucking thing to stop the bullying. They told me to ignore it. That the bullies were just assholes. I got harassed out of a paying job because when it came right down to it, I stood alone.

“How long before your white faves become more important than your black ones?”

Keep asking yourself that question.

I will never let anyone feel alone the way I did.

(As a side note, I named Remiri because of her support of the bi Dorian and Sera mods, the straight ones too, and when she called people who talked about Alistair’s whitewashing “idiots.” She has not, to my knowledge, participated in today’s fuckery. I’m simply using her as an example, because she was one of the first people in the DA fandom that I followed, and the first person that I blocked.)

@theprettynerdie it got better.


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